Judge rules National Day of Prayer unconstitutional AllianceDefenseFund
written by Ameritianity, April 16, 2010
The letter to the Danbury Baptists was about not establishing a particular "DENOMINATION" as a state "DENOMINATION." The term "RELIGION" had nothing to do with non-Christians at the time. No other world religion was even an issue.
If you are going to quote Thomas Jefferson, why not include these quotations. All too often those who promote the theory of an absolute separation Church and State like to stop at the words themselves. Yet, the founder they most often like to quote is Thomas Jefferson. Jefferson clearly believed our nation is founded on a Christian basis and that the "Freedom of Religion" was freedom to worship the "Creator God" in the way the individual chose. It was about not having "State Denominations" at the exclusion of other Christian Denominations. Here are some additional words of wisdom from Jefferson:
"The Christian religion, when divested of the rags in which they [the clergy AND THOSE WHO SAY THEY SPEAK FOR "BAPTISTS"] have enveloped it, and brought to the original purity and simplicity of it's benevolent institutor, is a religion of all others most friendly to liberty, science, and the freest expansion of the human mind." --Thomas Jefferson to Moses Robinson, 1801. ME 10:237
"Among the most inestimable of our blessings, also, is that... of liberty to worship our Creator in the way we think most agreeable to His will; a liberty deemed in other countries incompatible with good government and yet proved by our experience to be its best support." --Thomas Jefferson: Reply to John Thomas et al., 1807. ME 16:291
"Religion, as well as reason, confirms the soundness of those principles on which our government has been founded and its rights asserted." --Thomas Jefferson to P. H. Wendover, 1815. ME 14:283
To further deny the theory of "Absolute Separation of Church and State," others stated that the laws of government applied to religious groups too:
"The declaration that religious faith shall be unpunished does not give immunity to criminal acts dictated by religious error." --Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1788. ME 7:98
"If anything pass in a religious meeting seditiously and contrary to the public peace, let it be punished in the same manner and no otherwise than as if it had happened in a fair or market." --Thomas Jefferson: Notes on Religion, 1776. Papers 1:548
Even in Texas, our Constitution invokes "Almighty God" and "religious Denominations."
TEXAS CONSTITUTION
Preamble.
Humbly invoking the blessings of Almighty God, the people of the State of Texas, do ordain and establish this Constitution.
Article I, section 4.
No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office, or public trust, in this State; nor shall any one be excluded from holding office on account of his religious sentiments, provided he acknowledge the existence of a Supreme Being.
Article I, section 6.
All men have a natural and indefeasible right to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their own consciences. No man shall be compelled to attend, erect or support any place of worship, or to maintain any ministry against his consent. No human authority ought, in any case whatever, to control or interfere with the rights of conscience in matters of religion, and no preference shall ever be given by law to any religious society or mode of worship. But it shall be the duty of the Legislature to pass such laws as may be necessary to protect equally every religious denomination in the peaceable enjoyment of its own mode of public worship.
"RELIGION" at the time of the founding of our nation was "Worshiping Almighty God." It is the Liberal Progressiveness of such terms that has created so much confusion. Simply use the original meaning of "Christian Denomination" in place of "Religion" and things become very clear.
written by Ameritianity, April 16, 2010
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Once again, replace your present definition of "Religion" with "Christian Denomination" and the arguement goes away. Also, while there is not constitutional "religious test," certainly the people have the right to know what a candidates beliefs are before voting for him.
As to Muslims, surely the "Constitutional Right to Freedom of Religion" would not apply to a "Religion" that neither supports our Constitution (they promote sharia law) nor the concept of "Freedom of Religion."
written by Ameritianity, April 17, 2010
You ignore the obvious. Immediately upon the work of the Constitutional Convention and the First Congress, our nation had prayer in Congress, we had prayer in public school, we had Christmas and Easter holidays, we participated in Christmas plays in school, we had chaplains in the military who were free to pray in Jesus Name, Sunday was a day of rest and most business rested. All states at one time had laws that recognized that killing unborn babies was obviously evil. Pastors could freely speak without fear of attack by the IRS over a "CODE" that no one voted for and which clearly violates our Constitution.
“…shall not be established by…” … another phrase that you fail to define. “Recognition of the existence of” is not the “establishment of.” Christianity was not “established” by government. Baptists, Methodists, Catholics, . . . none were established by government. Our Founding Fathers “recognized the existence of” the Supreme Being of God. It is "self-evident." They “recognized” that the founding settlers of our nation shared the religion of Christianity and the issue at the time was that of the question of “establishing” a dominant “Christian Denomination” nationally or at the state level. Even the letter to the Danbury Baptists address Catholicism v. Non-Catholics.
Even the Mayflower Compact mentions “the advancement of the Christian Faith.” Our founding documents speak of the “endowment of our Creator,” “Devine Providence,” “And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.”
You would have us believe that 150 to 200 years of the American Experience was wrong and that only in the past few years, with the rise of Liberal/Progressivism in politics and religion, we have come to realize the “REAL and CORRECT” interpretation of the Bible and the USA. And, we have allowed those who share your perspective to control the discussion for many years. Those days are over.
Perhaps you and your followers should rise up and seek to overthrow the prohibition against murder, rape, libel, slander, theft, burglary and other law.
written by Ameritianity, April 17, 2010
written by Ameritianity, April 17, 2010
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